I keep on having trouble with singular vs. plural

[Ramon F Herrera]

In Spanish, we say "people is", in English "people are". Then, there
is "Microsoft is dedicated to [...]" vs. "Microsoft are dedicated
to" (sounds weird).

A friend of mine used to say -in Spanish- "I am going to the beauty
parlor so they cut my HAIRS", despite the fact that it is supposed to
be HAIR. (Voy a cortarme los pelos).

This is the question: Which is the proper (is there such thing?) way:

- "Many a programmer HAVE failed to understand this feature"

- "Many a programmer HAS failed to understand this feature"

A general explanation would be nice...

TIA,

-Ramon

[Marius Hancu]

Post by Ramon F Herrera
In Spanish, we say "people is", in English "people are". Then, there
is "Microsoft is dedicated to [...]" vs. "Microsoft are dedicated
to" (sounds weird).
A friend of mine used to say -in Spanish- "I am going to the beauty
parlor so they cut my HAIRS", despite the fact that it is supposed to
be HAIR. (Voy a cortarme los pelos).
- "Many a programmer HAVE failed to understand this feature"
- "Many a programmer HAS failed to understand this feature"
A general explanation would be nice...

IMO, the 2nd one is dominant in idiom:

"many a person have"
98 hits

"many a person has"
3950 hits in published books

and the only one seen as correct even in old grammars:
---
Pure English: a treatise on words and phrases, or practical ... - Page
107
Frederick H. Hackett, Ernest Alexander Girvin - 1884 - 205 pages -
Full view

"Full many a flower are born to blush unseen," is incorrect, and
should read : " Full many a flower is bom to blush unseen;" the rule
being that many a properly takes the singular.
---
Marius Hancu

[Ramon F Herrera]

Post by Marius Hancu

Post by Ramon F Herrera
In Spanish, we say "people is", in English "people are". Then, there
is "Microsoft is dedicated to [...]" vs. "Microsoft are dedicated
to" (sounds weird).
A friend of mine used to say -in Spanish- "I am going to the beauty
parlor so they cut my HAIRS", despite the fact that it is supposed to
be HAIR. (Voy a cortarme los pelos).
 - "Many a programmer HAVE failed to understand this feature"
 - "Many a programmer HAS failed to understand this feature"
A general explanation would be nice...

"many a person have"
98 hits
"many  a person has"
3950 hits in published books
---
Pure English: a treatise on words and phrases, or practical ... - Page
107
Frederick H. Hackett, Ernest Alexander Girvin - 1884 - 205 pages -
Full view
"Full many a flower are born to blush unseen," is incorrect, and
should read : " Full many a flower is bom to blush unseen;" the rule
being that many a properly takes the singular.
---
Marius Hancu

Thanks, Marius and Andrew!

I guess we could resolve like this:

[Many a (programmer has)] failed

The parenthesized expression is singular while the bracketed one is
plural.

-Ramon

[Peter Moylan]

Post by Ramon F Herrera
[Many a (programmer has)] failed
The parenthesized expression is singular while the bracketed one is
plural.

There isn't a plural anywhere in that sentence. If I had to parse it,
I'd get the different result:
(Many a programmer) (has failed)

Traditionally, we have always construed "many a X" as singular.

Take out the "a", and the picture changes:
Many programmers have failed

But the "a" is clearly an indicator of the singular.

[Andrew Taylor]

Post by Ramon F Herrera
In Spanish, we say "people is", in English "people are". Then, there
is "Microsoft is dedicated to [...]" vs. "Microsoft are dedicated
to" (sounds weird).
A friend of mine used to say -in Spanish- "I am going to the beauty
parlor so they cut my HAIRS", despite the fact that it is supposed to
be HAIR. (Voy a cortarme los pelos).
 - "Many a programmer HAVE failed to understand this feature"
 - "Many a programmer HAS failed to understand this feature"
A general explanation would be nice...
TIA,
-Ramon
In Spanish, we say "people is", in English "people are". Then, there
is "Microsoft is dedicated to [...]" vs. "Microsoft are dedicated
to" (sounds weird).
A friend of mine used to say -in Spanish- "I am going to the beauty
parlor so they cut my HAIRS", despite the fact that it is supposed to
be HAIR. (Voy a cortarme los pelos).
- "Many a programmer HAVE failed to understand this feature"
- "Many a programmer HAS failed to understand this feature"
A general explanation would be nice...
TIA,
-Ramon

HAS is the usual form for your example, though I can't really
explain why - I think it's just a matter of idiom.

In contrast, without the "a":
- Many programmers HAVE failed to understand...

Andrew

[Mark Brader]

Post by Ramon F Herrera
In Spanish, we say "people is", in English "people are". Then, there
is "Microsoft is dedicated to [...]" vs. "Microsoft are dedicated
to" (sounds weird).

British usage: "Microsoft are".
American business and legal usage: "Microsoft is ... it is."
American informal usage: "Microsoft is ... they are."

Post by Ramon F Herrera
A friend of mine used to say -in Spanish- "I am going to the beauty
parlor so they cut my HAIRS", despite the fact that it is supposed to
be HAIR. (Voy a cortarme los pelos).

In English, "hair" is both a mass noun and a count noun, and almost all
mass nouns are construed as singular. In talking about a barber or a
beauty parlor, we normally say that they cut your hair (mass noun).
But if you look at the operation in detail, it actually involves
cutting perhaps 80,000 hairs (count noun).

It may work differently in Spanish -- I know it does in French.

Post by Ramon F Herrera
- "Many a programmer HAVE failed to understand this feature"
- "Many a programmer HAS failed to understand this feature"

"Has".

Post by Ramon F Herrera
A general explanation would be nice...

"Many a(n)" is an idiom. Idioms don't follow general rules.
The rule for this idiom is that it's construed as singular.

[Pablo]

Post by Ramon F Herrera
A friend of mine used to say -in Spanish- "I am going to the beauty
parlor so they cut my HAIRS", despite the fact that it is supposed to
be HAIR. (Voy a cortarme los pelos).

Google hits:

"cortarme el pelo" 716000

"cortarme los pelos" 2350

"cortarme el cabello" 110000

"cortarme los cabellos" 261

So a bit of a grey area in Spanish as well :-)

Perhaps it's regional?

[Jerry Friedman]

Post by Ramon F Herrera
In Spanish, we say "people is", in English "people are". Then, there
is "Microsoft is dedicated to [...]" vs. "Microsoft are dedicated
to" (sounds weird).
A friend of mine used to say -in Spanish- "I am going to the beauty
parlor so they cut my HAIRS", despite the fact that it is supposed to
be HAIR. (Voy a cortarme los pelos).

...

You were right to avoid "I am going to the beauty shop to cut my
hair," which the Spanish would suggest, but in my American English
it's "to get my hair cut" or "to get a haircut".

--
Jerry Friedman

[Mike Lyle]

Post by Jerry Friedman

Post by Ramon F Herrera
In Spanish, we say "people is", in English "people are". Then, there
is "Microsoft is dedicated to [...]" vs. "Microsoft are dedicated
to" (sounds weird).
A friend of mine used to say -in Spanish- "I am going to the beauty
parlor so they cut my HAIRS", despite the fact that it is supposed to
be HAIR. (Voy a cortarme los pelos).

...
You were right to avoid "I am going to the beauty shop to cut my
hair," which the Spanish would suggest, but in my American English
it's "to get my hair cut" or "to get a haircut".

A Welshman once told me "I'm going to pull my teeth this afternoon."
(Those were the days of non-conservative dentistry. Of course the fee
structure had nothing to do with it...)

[Patxi]

Post by Ramon F Herrera
In Spanish, we say "people is", in English "people are". Then, there
is "Microsoft is dedicated to [...]" vs. "Microsoft are dedicated
to" (sounds weird).
A friend of mine used to say -in Spanish- "I am going to the beauty
parlor so they cut my HAIRS", despite the fact that it is supposed to
be HAIR. (Voy a cortarme los pelos).
- "Many a programmer HAVE failed to understand this feature"
- "Many a programmer HAS failed to understand this feature"
A general explanation would be nice...

A general explanation is not possible. You are dealing with words or
expressions where the meaning, plural vs. singular, is ambiguous. Therefore
the grammatical number is unpredictable, until you learn the word and hear
it used.

"Many a" can best be treated as a singular adjective, which syntactically
appears as two words. It means "numerous ones" or "one of a large number".
I don't know how one would express this concept in Spanish. "Many is the",
always at the beginning of a sentence, is common in English also. "Many is
the programmer who has failed to understand this feature."

http://www.answers.com/topic/many-a

Etymologically, "people" is not the plural of "person", although many people
use it that way, many persons too.

Patxi

[Peter Moylan]

Post by Patxi
"Many a" can best be treated as a singular adjective, which
syntactically appears as two words. It means "numerous ones" or "one of
a large number". I don't know how one would express this concept in
Spanish. "Many is the", always at the beginning of a sentence, is
common in English also. "Many is the programmer who has failed to
understand this feature."

Actually, it's "Many are the programmers who have ...". I know that the
singular form is seen sometimes, but I'd call it a mistake.

"Many" is plural. "Many a" is singular. That one little letter makes all
the difference.

[Patxi]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Patxi
"Many a" can best be treated as a singular adjective, which
syntactically appears as two words. It means "numerous ones" or "one of
a large number". I don't know how one would express this concept in
Spanish. "Many is the", always at the beginning of a sentence, is
common in English also. "Many is the programmer who has failed to
understand this feature."

Actually, it's "Many are the programmers who have ...". I know that the
singular form is seen sometimes, but I'd call it a mistake.

According to answers.com, "many is the" first appears in 1297. I would
hardly call it a mistake. The suggestion that it and "many a" are calques
from the Latin is interesting. I get like a billion hits in Bing Search,
for "many's the", and over 500 million for "many a".

Many's the time I've been mistaken
And many times confused
Yes, and often felt forsaken
And certainly misused
But I'm all right, I'm all right
I'm just weary to my bones
Still, you don't expect to be
Bright and bon vivant
So far away from home, so far away from home
--Paule Simon, "Ameircan Tune"

Patxi

Post by Peter Moylan
"Many" is plural. "Many a" is singular. That one little letter makes all
the difference.
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.

[Robert Bannister]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Patxi
"Many a" can best be treated as a singular adjective, which
syntactically appears as two words. It means "numerous ones" or "one of
a large number". I don't know how one would express this concept in
Spanish. "Many is the", always at the beginning of a sentence, is
common in English also. "Many is the programmer who has failed to
understand this feature."

Actually, it's "Many are the programmers who have ...". I know that the
singular form is seen sometimes, but I'd call it a mistake.

According to answers.com, "many is the" first appears in 1297. I would
hardly call it a mistake. The suggestion that it and "many a" are
calques from the Latin is interesting.

It matches the German usage of "manche" and "manch ein" so well.

[CDB]

Post by Patxi

Post by Ramon F Herrera
In Spanish, we say "people is", in English "people are". Then,
there is "Microsoft is dedicated to [...]" vs. "Microsoft are
dedicated to" (sounds weird).
A friend of mine used to say -in Spanish- "I am going to the beauty
parlor so they cut my HAIRS", despite the fact that it is supposed
to be HAIR. (Voy a cortarme los pelos).
This is the question: Which is the proper (is there such thing?)
way: - "Many a programmer HAVE failed to understand this feature"
- "Many a programmer HAS failed to understand this feature"
A general explanation would be nice...

A general explanation is not possible. You are dealing with words
or expressions where the meaning, plural vs. singular, is
ambiguous. Therefore the grammatical number is unpredictable,
until you learn the word and hear it used.
"Many a" can best be treated as a singular adjective, which
syntactically appears as two words. It means "numerous ones" or
"one of a large number". I don't know how one would express this
concept in Spanish. "Many is the", always at the beginning of a
sentence, is common in English also. "Many is the programmer who
has failed to understand this feature."

That expression is not very common these days, and I'm not sure it
ever was, in spite of Answers. As for "many a programmer", I suspect
that it's a calque on a similar Latin expression, along the lines of
"multus programmator". It was mostly poetic. My dictionary mentions
only Horace and Virgil as using it (Lewis & Short add a couple of
others*), but they were read by early writers of English.
* http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=multus&la=la#lexicon

[Patxi]

Post by Patxi

Post by Ramon F Herrera
In Spanish, we say "people is", in English "people are". Then,
there is "Microsoft is dedicated to [...]" vs. "Microsoft are
dedicated to" (sounds weird).
A friend of mine used to say -in Spanish- "I am going to the beauty
parlor so they cut my HAIRS", despite the fact that it is supposed
to be HAIR. (Voy a cortarme los pelos).
This is the question: Which is the proper (is there such thing?)
way: - "Many a programmer HAVE failed to understand this feature"
- "Many a programmer HAS failed to understand this feature"
A general explanation would be nice...

A general explanation is not possible. You are dealing with words
or expressions where the meaning, plural vs. singular, is
ambiguous. Therefore the grammatical number is unpredictable,
until you learn the word and hear it used.
"Many a" can best be treated as a singular adjective, which
syntactically appears as two words. It means "numerous ones" or
"one of a large number". I don't know how one would express this
concept in Spanish. "Many is the", always at the beginning of a
sentence, is common in English also. "Many is the programmer who
has failed to understand this feature."

That expression is not very common these days, and I'm not sure it ever
was, in spite of Answers. As for "many a programmer", I suspect that it's
a calque on a similar Latin expression, along the lines of "multus
programmator". It was mostly poetic. My dictionary mentions only Horace
and Virgil as using it (Lewis & Short add a couple of others*), but they
were read by early writers of English.

Thanks. I knew I had seen it before, in another language. As for not being
very common, is that why I get over 500 million hits for "many a" and more
than a billion for "many's the"?

I agree that the expressions have a poetic ring to them, but English
speakers must really like it.

Patxi

* http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=multus&la=la#lexicon

[CDB]

Post by Patxi

Post by CDB

Post by Patxi

Post by Ramon F Herrera
In Spanish, we say "people is", in English "people are". Then,
there is "Microsoft is dedicated to [...]" vs. "Microsoft are
dedicated to" (sounds weird).
A friend of mine used to say -in Spanish- "I am going to the
beauty parlor so they cut my HAIRS", despite the fact that it is
supposed to be HAIR. (Voy a cortarme los pelos).
This is the question: Which is the proper (is there such thing?)
way: - "Many a programmer HAVE failed to understand this feature"
- "Many a programmer HAS failed to understand this feature"
A general explanation would be nice...

A general explanation is not possible. You are dealing with words
or expressions where the meaning, plural vs. singular, is
ambiguous. Therefore the grammatical number is unpredictable,
until you learn the word and hear it used.
"Many a" can best be treated as a singular adjective, which
syntactically appears as two words. It means "numerous ones" or
"one of a large number". I don't know how one would express this
concept in Spanish. "Many is the", always at the beginning of a
sentence, is common in English also. "Many is the programmer who
has failed to understand this feature."

That expression is not very common these days, and I'm not sure it
ever was, in spite of Answers. As for "many a programmer", I
suspect that it's a calque on a similar Latin expression, along
the lines of "multus programmator". It was mostly poetic. My
dictionary mentions only Horace and Virgil as using it (Lewis &
Short add a couple of others*), but they were read by early
writers of English.

Thanks. I knew I had seen it before, in another language.

You get something similar in French, with the singular-for-plural use
of the word "maint" (no article): mainte fois, many a time; maintes
fois, many times.
http://atilf.atilf.fr/dendien/scripts/tlfiv5/advanced.exe?8;s=3225416715;
http://tinyurl.com/3xpczrm

Post by Patxi
As for
not being very common, is that why I get over 500 million hits for
"many a" and more than a billion for "many's the"?

I only meant to refer to "many is the" ("that expression"); I agree
that "many a" is used more often. Google overestimates wildly: if you
follow the "many is the" list to its end, it turns out to have only
561 hits in it, and a quick inspection of those suggests that the
majority of them are not for the expression we're talking about.
"Many's the" gets 656, probably more of them real, but another quick
inspection says that many of them are poetic writing, as you say.

Post by Patxi
I agree that the expressions have a poetic ring to them, but English
speakers must really like it.

[Peter Moylan]

Post by Patxi
Thanks. I knew I had seen it before, in another language. As for not
being very common, is that why I get over 500 million hits for "many a"
and more than a billion for "many's the"?

As we've often seen in this group, Google counts tend to be wildly
inaccurate.

They also vary from place to place. I got about 8 million for "many a",
and 67,900 for "many's the". Very different from your figures, and most
probably very different from what I'd get if I repeated the search tomorrow.

[Patxi]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Patxi
Thanks. I knew I had seen it before, in another language. As for not
being very common, is that why I get over 500 million hits for "many a"
and more than a billion for "many's the"?

As we've often seen in this group, Google counts tend to be wildly
inaccurate.
They also vary from place to place. I got about 8 million for "many a",
and 67,900 for "many's the". Very different from your figures, and most
probably very different from what I'd get if I repeated the search tomorrow.

I used to like the DRAE Banco de datos for this sort of thing in Spanish,
until I realized that it would reject hits, that it considered
ungrammatical! I assume that there is a comparable databank for English,
with sample utterances from literature, technical writing, TV shows,
conversation, etc. I have to admit that although I am familiar with these
expressions, I can't remember having heard either in conversation.

Cheers,

Patxi

[mm]

On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 09:41:19 -0800 (PST), Ramon F Herrera

Post by Ramon F Herrera
In Spanish, we say "people is", in English "people are".

People is a very confused word. It somehow has become a plural for
person.

Post by Ramon F Herrera
Then, there
is "Microsoft is dedicated to [...]" vs. "Microsoft are dedicated
to" (sounds weird).

In Britain, they say the latter. If they catch you speaking of
Microsoft or another corporation in the plural, speak with a British
accent and say, "I am from England".

Post by Ramon F Herrera
A friend of mine used to say -in Spanish- "I am going to the beauty
parlor so they cut my HAIRS", despite the fact that it is supposed to
be HAIR. (Voy a cortarme los pelos).
- "Many a programmer HAVE failed to understand this feature"
- "Many a programmer HAS failed to understand this feature"

Skip the "many" and concentrate on "a programmer". It's an idioma.

Post by Ramon F Herrera
A general explanation would be nice...
TIA,
-Ramon

[Daniel James]

In article <9bd0b57e-0d78-433c-947d-

Post by Ramon F Herrera
- "Many a programmer HAS failed to understand this feature"
A general explanation would be nice...

It's idiom ... I don't know how it came to be that way, but if you want
a rationalization you can think of it as being "There have been many
occasions on which a programmer has failed to understand this feature".

Cheers,
Daniel.